A great restaurant general manager (GM) isn't just the boss.
They're the person a team wants to follow into battle every night. In this episode of the Restaurant Rockstars podcast, host Roger talks with Will Dasco of Hospitality By Will, who was promoted to general manager at Hillstone Restaurant Group just after his 24th birthday and most recently led food and beverage at a hotel with a members club.
Will explains why emotional intelligence and an appreciation for every role come first, and why culture is the values you live every day, not the mission statement on the wall. He shares how he hires and onboards new team members, how he holds people accountable fairly with progressive discipline, his three-I framework for pre-shift meetings (inspect, inform, inspire), how to recognize great work, and how to suggestively sell without sounding like a car salesman.
What You'll Learn
- What separates a true leader from a boss: emotional intelligence, empathy and understanding every role
- Why culture is the values you live every day, not your mission statement
- How to hire and onboard so new team members feel welcome, including hiring in groups of at least two
- How to train your trainers and keep one or two people in the hiring pipeline
- How to hold everyone accountable fairly with clear standards and progressive discipline
- Will's three-I pre-shift framework: inspect, inform, inspire
- How to suggestively sell by telling a story instead of pushing a sale
- Interview tips: ask a thoughtful question, stop talking, and think like a casting director
Frequently Asked Questions
Q: What makes a great restaurant general manager?
A: Will Dasco says it starts with emotional intelligence: reading the room, knowing that every team member needs to be managed a little differently, and understanding the why behind a mistake instead of only the what. Great GMs also appreciate every role, from the dishwasher to the bartender, and know where to be and when.
Q: How do you hold restaurant staff accountable?
A: Set a clear standard, communicate it in more than one place, then follow through every time. Will's example is a 4:30 pre-shift start: a private conversation the first time someone is late, documentation the second time and a different conversation the third. Letting even one minute slide makes the late arrival the new standard.
Q: How long should a restaurant pre-shift meeting be?
A: At least 15 minutes, and 30 is best. Will runs pre-shift with three I's: inspect the team's appearance and readiness, inform them about specials and menu changes, and inspire them around one value or idea. The best pre-shifts become a conversation with the team, not a lecture.
Q: How should restaurants onboard new hires?
A: Show new hires the same hospitality you show guests. Will hires in groups of at least two so no one starts alone, pairs new hires with team members who want to train, lets them shadow a strong performer and gives each person the time they need to learn.
Q: How do you suggestively sell without being pushy?
A: Know the product well enough to paint a picture. Instead of a hard sell, connect the suggestion to what the guest already ordered or told you they like, and explain why it fits.
About Will Dasco
Will Dasco is the founder of Hospitality By Will. He was promoted to general manager at Hillstone Restaurant Group just after his 24th birthday, leading a multimillion-dollar operation, and most recently served as food and beverage director at a hotel with a members club.
Connect with Will Dasco and Hospitality By Will
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/hospitalitybywill/
Will on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willdasco/
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Today's episode is about what makes a great GM. There's so many things. It is all about onboarding, having a framework for accountability, setting clear expectations, recognizing that every team member has a different personality, understanding each individual position to help set them up for success and not failure.
We're talking about pre-shifts and structure not ever letting something slide. there's also recognition and rewards, empowerment, giving people additional responsibility.
My guest today, Mr. Will Dasco from Hospitality by Will
This episode covers it all. You're not gonna wanna miss it. Stay tuned.
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Will, great to have you here today. Thanks for being with me
Yeah, I'm happy to here. Thanks for having me
You have such extensive experience, and leadership is so important in restaurants today. So let's start it off by saying what in your opinion makes a great restaurant GM from just an average one who might be the boss versus a true leader?
What are those qualities that really set people apart? And I know you're speaking from experience with this answer.
Yeah, I think it's, I think there's so many things, right? There's so many factors that sort of play into what creates a, a great leader and somebody that, somebody wants to actually follow into battle, if you will, every night. And,
Love it
yeah, I think it's I think it starts with emotional intelligence, I think is a really important quality nowadays especially. It's being able to read a room and understand that not-- not a one-size-fits-all model for all employees, and everybody needs to be managed a little bit differently. And, and recognize that somebody might be going through something. And,
I love that too
ma- yeah, we're managing people in the people business, right?
And being able to empathize with people during challenging moments and, if they make a mistake, it's understanding the why behind the what versus just focusing on the what. I think having an appreciation for every role is really important when you're leading a large team, right?
And that's everybody from, the steward or the dishwasher to the line cook to the prep cook to service assistant, bartender, server. Everybody plays a role. And that's sort of the beauty of a restaurant, right? Is it's the sum of many parts and if there's one part that isn't, operating at 100%, it's peeling back the layers of the onion a little bit to understand, okay, what's going on here.
Yeah, I think it's understanding, knowing understanding and knowing where to be and when and then how to grease the wheels in moments of need grab the WD-40 and, adjust and pivot as needed. I think it's, yeah, a, a culmination of all of those things.
That's, to me, that's the opposite of being a boss or a figurehead. I heard empathy. I heard getting to know people and who they are as people, not just as employees, and that's really awesome. Exactly. And also working with different people and different personalities, knowing every position, I heard, which is so important, and knowing what...
that's sort of the foundation for accountability, and we're gonna get into that. But that's excellent. So let's talk about the difference between culture perhaps and maybe a mission statement, and tell us what really worked for culture in your restaurants in your past experience and even your current experience.
Yeah, that's a great question. I think culture is it's easy to write a mission statement, right? You can search online, you can see what, some of the top dogs are doing and the values that s- they live by. But when push comes to shove, it's your set of values that ultimately show, right?
And yeah, I think that's what separates culture from the mission statement. It's the values you live every day. It's lived it's through lived experience. And, you need to understand where you're going as a leader, first and foremost, before you can guide anyone else there, right?
And so understanding who you are, what you value what you care about, and then instilling that same sense of culture and care and and pride, i-into the team, right? Because they're gonna, they're gonna follow you into battle, if you will, every night. Yeah, I think it's just fostering an environment that is inclusive is understanding is grounded in, accountability and integrity and and empathy.
Because again, this is the people business and, if you don't, if you don't believe in something, how can you expect anyone else to, and I think... Yeah, I've seen it so many times in in, in restaurants with broken cultures where you walk in and it's palpable. You can just tell immediately, right?
Something's off here. And likewise, when you walk into one where the culture is great, you can also sense that, you you're met with this, this hug, this warm embrace. The place just kinda feels special. And I think that is what sets, the, the great from the not so great is yeah, being able to have a great culture that really permeates the space.
You're speaking from years and years of hard-won experience. Was there a certain approach to you that was just innate and you just naturally followed it, or were there learnings along the way that made you who you are today? And that's a really great question because people are trying to become the best leader they can be because, of course, labor shortage.
It's like we're really seeking retention, we're really seeking team spirit, and we want people to all be pulling in the direction before you go to battle, like you say. So take us back. How did you get to be who you are today and what really made... What were the biggest lessons, is really where I'm going with this?
Yeah, it's a great question. There were many lessons, and there still are, right? And I think that's the beauty of leadership is y- you're You're always a student, right? You're-- The, the journey never ends. You never arrive. And for me, I was tasked with leading, a multimillion-dollar operation with Hillstone Restaurant Group at a very young age.
I was offered a, a GM promotion just after my 24th birthday. And I think back to, me at 24, I'm like, it's unbelievable that happened. But I just felt the enormity of the responsibility
Shoulders
Yep. Pressure to perform. Yeah
yeah, pressure to perform and the buck sort of started and ended with me a little bit. And so yeah. So it was, know, but I've always had a fighting spirit and I, I knew that I, would figure it out and rise to the occasion. But yeah, there were definitely there were mentors that I'm really grateful for and I'm still in touch with to this day that really helped guide a lot of my decision-making back then because, I was wanting to leave a really positive impression. and I think I moved a little bit too quickly in a lot of moments. And hindsight's always 20/20, and looking back on some of those moments now, I definitely would've handled some conversations a bit differently.
Yes
Because at that age, 24, I was, I was eager, I was a bit hot-headed.
I was quick to, jump the gun and make a call and I didn't really think through moments in ways that I think leaders really need to. All that to say, I think it helped shaped who I am to this day or who I am today. So yeah, I'm grateful for those moments.
But yeah, to say that there weren't lessons would be a complete and utter lie.
That's awesome. Let's talk about the importance of onboarding. What's the process like to get the best performance out of people? Like, how do you onboard and welcome them, make them feel comfortable? Because it's a stressful thing to accept a new job and get to know new people and new processes.
Even if you've got experience, it's like you gotta get 'em over that hump so that they're immediately, productive, but they feel, like you said, comfortable. What's the key to that?
I think hiring is the most important thing
Any industry and any business. If you're s- offering a service or you're selling a product or you have some sort of human-to-human interaction, whether it's B2B or B2C, I think it's cr- hiring is the most critical decision. Because you're placing an enormous amount of faith and trust in somebody to fulfill a mission, if you will, right?
And I think in hospitality and in restaurants, that is, a mission and a promise to the guest to offer the best possible experience
Experience may look like, right? And so I think, yeah, it starts with, how are we presenting ourselves in, an online job post? What does the job description look like? How does it read? Does it represent the business well? And then what does the interview process look like? Is that a really great experience or are you stumbling your way through it with days in between without any communication?
There's so many considerations that go into hiring, I think, before you even make it to onboarding. Let's assume that all of that goes really and, you set that tone from the initial interaction, right? Whether it be the online job post or the initial outreach, if you reach out to somebody via recruitment site or something like that. And how does that all read and how does that all feel? And then once you bring somebody on board, I think it's just really to showcase real hospitality. If you want these people who are super impressionable, by the way, because they're, starting a new job, they're anxious they're worried.
It's like I always try to place myself in their shoes. I remember the feeling of starting a new job. It's always just the worst,
I know
to start something new it's, it-- you're just riddled with anxiety. And so anything you could do to ease that a little bit, I think is, really important and just, yeah, and showcase just hospitality like you would to a guest and go above and beyond for those new hires, and then, And I always like to hire in groups of at least two. And the reason for that is it's, I think, important for them to feel like they're not going through this alone. And they have a buddy, and they can say, "Oh, Roger, we're starting on the same day, like how great is that?"
"Oh, hey, did did you understand the questions on that test?" Or "Did you... What was your first training day like?" And, you can relate, in this, i-in this process with somebody and communicate through it and, share any concerns you have.
It's like this confidant you have as you're going through this process. Yeah. And then, as far as training goes, I think it's important to pair people your new hires with people that actually want to train and identify those people well ahead of time and be super organized in that process because I've been the guy that's been just thrown into training where you don't have any sort of heads up and I think f- at least for me, and everybody's a bit different, but, in order for me to be able to train, coach, develop to the best of my ability, I need to reframe how I'm going to work throughout the night or throughout the day a little bit because things are going to take a little bit more time and I'm not going to be performing 100% because I'm, I'm taking time to explain.
You know what I mean? So all of that stuff takes time and for, in order for training to occur the conditions need to be right. And so yeah. And then, and train your trainers ahead of time. I think that's something that's not
It is.
You know, is, you don't want the blind leading the blind.
You need to make sure that, know, the people that you're entrusting to the future of the restaurant actually know what they're doing and are abiding by your set of standards and expectations and offering the caliber of experience you- you've come to expect from your business,
so I'm hearing two things. I'm hearing first of all, you had many mentors that really shaped your career, and so you learned the importance of that. So I'm hearing that's happening. So we have mentors who could be buddies that take these people under their wing. And then the next thing is shadowing.
Do you turn people loose right away, or do they shadow some of these mentors or buddies for a couple of shifts
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Yeah, I think there's definitely shadowing that occurs. I think it's important to understand before, you, you seek to be understood, if you will. But I think, yeah, just being able to shadow somebody who's doing it and doing it really well just as like a
Impression to be like, "This is the target.
This is what we're working towards." And then stripping that back in the days that follow, right? And having sort of compartmentalized training a little bit into, maybe it's three days, four days, five days, an adequate amount of time, and also understanding that everybody learns at a different pace, so it can't shouldn't be, anyway, a one-size-fits-all model. What might take you three days to learn, Roger, might take me five, and that's okay, right? Because we're gonna a-achieve the same end goal or maybe a better end result if you just take a little bit more time. So I think what tends to happen is, restaurants hire it-- when it-- like when they absolutely need somebody and I think it's actually great to have one or two people in the pipeline always,
Absolutely. Yep
when, push comes to shove, and you know how this industry goes, like inevitably somebody, has to leave for X, Y, Z reason it's, don't wanna react to that moment, right?
I think it's important to just say, "Okay, like we know that these things are going to happen. We don't necessarily know when, but we can plan somewhat accordingly, so let me just have one or two people that or maybe are just part-time people are on call." And then, when a full-time person leaves if it's a smaller business you can plug and play somebody who's already had exposure to the business versus reacting. And then you hire somebody, and then you rush them through the onboarding process and through the training process because you need them on the floor on Saturday night. I think you're doing yourself, that individual, and your guest and the business a disservice,
for sure. You mentioned a little bit ago that you, as a leader, you know each position and what the expectations are in each position. And obviously, if you've been in an organization long enough, you're an expert as if you could jump into any position on the fly and have the skill set so that the show must go on and all that kind of stuff.
So with that in mind, how do we-- how do you achieve accountability? Because we also talked about different people, different personalities. Some person might learn in three shifts, another in five but still, accountability is so important. It's making sure that everyone, one, understands each position and what's expected of them, and two, they deliver to those expectations.
How do you make that happen across the organization?
Yeah, that's a really good question, and I think this is the number one killer of culture across
But across all business. It's really easy to set... have a set of expectations or a set of standards, right? Which is really step one, I think, in fostering a culture. And let's say it's timeliness. That's the expectation. So I want everybody to be on time. Pre-shift is at 4:30 every day, and the expectation is that you show up to pre-shift dressed, clocked in, ready to go at 4:30. Okay, cool. now we- we're gonna communicate that effectively, right?
Because the standard can't just live with you as the leader. It needs to live with everybody else. So you say, "Hey, okay. We focus... we're talking about it in focus points, and we have it as pre-shift notes, and I sent an email out and it's posted in, in the break room." And starting next Monday, the expectation is everybody will arrive to pre-shift at 4:30 ready to go."
Cool. Now it's been communicated. And then that Monday comes around and it's 4:32, and in walks Joe and Sally two minutes late, the show just carries on and no- nobody says anything and, so then Tuesday comes and then it's 4:34, and then they just stroll in and so on. And then so you perpetuate that behavior by allowing it to happen versus
"Hey Joe, Sally," and I don't think it needs to be a public moment, right?
You praise in public and you criticize in
Absolutely. Okay, good
aside, you pull them aside and you just say, "Hey guys, we've been talking about this for the past two weeks. I set the expectation that, pre-shift was gonna start at 4:30 and it's 4:32.
And, you two are actually a couple veterans. You've been here for a long time, and my expectation is that you would really showcase the standard to everybody else,
yes
Let's try to do better and let's try to, uphold that standard moving forward. Okay. Then the next day rolls around and it's 4:31, and in walks Joe and Sally, so now they're one minute late, right? S- A lot of people would say, "Ah, it's just a minute. Let's-- It's fine. It's-- I don't wanna deal with that today." But if
That standard you're accepting becomes the new expectation for
all right, everybody sees it. Yep
everybody sees it and that becomes acceptable, and so everybody starts to do it. you pull them aside and you go, "Joe, Sally, we just talked about this yesterday, we've been talking about it for a couple weeks, know. Now I'm gonna document you for this because this is like
There you go
Okay, great. And then the next day if they show up late again, this point, this is the third time, now we're gonna have a different kind of conversation because you clearly just have a blatant disregard for what the new standard is, right? And so you've set the expectation, you've communicated effectively and through progressive discipline you've held them accountable to something. And if you don't do that, and I think that's that last step is the progressive discipline and the accountability, and I think that's where a lot of businesses just miss the mark because It's uncomfortable to have to sit in front of Joe and Sally, who have worked here twice as long as you have, and tell them, "Hey, here's the expectation. You're not abiding by the expectation. I'm gonna hold you accountable." But if you don't do that, that's how you end up with poor culture, and that's how you end up with a place where nobody cares about standards and, things just slip and so on and so forth.
Really glad that you brought consistency to the table here, because like you said, depending on the day, depending on the pressures that you're under yourself, it's so easy to let something like that slide, even if it's kind of a minor infraction. But the team see it, and they recognize, oh, so two things, consistency and fairness, impartiality has to happen, 'cause even if you get a top performer, it's like you don't let them slide if s- if you notice something's happening, even if they're always great and it's a, it's a, relatively minor thing, or it never happens.
It's like you got to show people that you have fairness and impartiality regardless of the person, and that you treat everyone equally, and you really care about each person. So that's fantastic. That is so great. What about recognition and rewards? Does anything happen, say, on a regular basis that really recognize people for taking initiative, going above and beyond?
Yeah, I think so. I think guest sentiment is the easiest way to, to highlight, when something's going well. I think too often we focus on what goes wrong because so many things can go wrong in a restaurant or
Yeah.
space. But if that's all you focus on, then yeah, it just kinda brings morale down a little bit.
So I do think it's important to balance that out with, things going right. Yeah. Using the same example, maybe somebody show, sh- co-consistently shows up on time and, they're abiding by the new standard and they're actually not just abiding by it, but they're championing it and they're your cheerleader and they're holding their peers accountable to it.
Like that's... I think that's a huge win. When you hear some, a, a peer tell, a, a teammate telling another teammate, "Hey man the standard is now that we show up at 4:30," and you're walking in at 4:30. If they do the work for you, I'm like, "Oh, we're doing something right here."
But back to your point of praising, I think guest sentiment. You get a positive review and somebody mentions somebody by name, like, why not? I think absolutely bring that up during pre-shift notes and and really make a big deal about it. Because I think one, that just feels good for that individual, but then I think you also inspire everybody else to push a little bit harder that night maybe. So maybe it's their name the next day. Yeah, it's just again, understanding your people, understanding your team and what motivates them,
you talked e- earlier about pre-shifts. Let's go back to that, because a pre-shift is really important. And I've been in a lot of restaurants where I see pre-shifts are, "Oh, this is the chef's daily special. We're gonna taste you on that." But it's rarely a strategy session, which to me has always been most important.
What do you think is a really effective pre-shift? How long should it last? What should be covered? Is there any role-playing that goes on? How do you read tables? There's so many things that could go into an effective pre-shift. How do you do it?
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Yeah, it's a good question. I think, and I've always thought this, I think pre-shift is the most important time of day. So it should never be rushed. I think at the bare minimum it should be 15 minutes, but 30 is best. And, people gawk at that, 30 minutes, where do you find the time?
And it's you make the time. If it's important enough to you, you make the time. And I could tell you right now, if you know these 18 things that are really bugging you every day, if you took the time, you'd probably have maybe half the amount of pebbles in your shoe, right? And so But yeah I have a framework that I've always abided by and, it's the three Is: inspect, inform, inspire. So y- you inspect your team, right? Make sure everybody looks sharp. Are people are showing up on time? Are they dressed? Are they well-groomed? Do they look presentable? Are they wear- is this their third double in a row, and are they still wearing the same shirt from the first shift, three days ago? So things like that, just making sure that everybody's, you know, looking as presentable as possible because I think that then folds into confidence and the way they show up in front of the guests and you know, just establishes trust and whatnot. And then you inform them, "Okay, here are the specials tonight. Here's what we're sold out of." This week's cocktail focus is, oh, here's this new bottle of wine or, "Hey, this bottle on the menu was a 2023 vintage. We just moved to the 2024, just FYI." What-- you know. And then the last one is the most important, and I think it's the one that's too often missed, and that's when you inspire.
That's when you pick one thing and you just go crazy on it, we're gonna talk about
Ja
and the importance of integrity and why this is such an important value to me, or accountability or, when a guest walks through the door tonight, we're gonna make sure that we do everything in our power to make them feel like they're at home, you recognize a regular, "Mr. and Mrs. Smith, so good to see you. How's little Johnny? How was your trip to Aspen?" It's... And it doesn't need to be fake or disingenuine or anything like that. I think there are ways to really show up in in, in a warm and genuine way for your guests, and you need to figure out what that is for you and what that looks like for you.
But I think as leaders, too often I've sat through pre-shifts where I'm just like, "What are we talking about?" It's just they're just droning on and they're talking at the team. And I think the most effective and the most inspiring pre-shifts I've been a part of are the ones that become a bit of a dialogue between you and the team.
And, when the team starts to give notes, when they take the lead That's another one of those moments where I'm just like, "Oh, we've made it," because that's what you want. They're the ones on the front lines, like living it every day, and it-- and y- you gotta be careful 'cause you don't wanna turn that...
it shouldn't be an opportunity for them to just complain, right? Because I don't think that's healthy either.
No no.
If they can really bring up a point and go, "Oh yeah, yesterday I had this table and, here's this really special moment that we had," and then they start telling the story, right?
And they, and it's-- everybody can live in that moment and be inspired by it, I think that is wow, okay, we've made it,
I think you just defined that word, that magic word, hospitality, right? That sums it all up. And I'm hearing you're treating every guest like they're a, an old friend or a regular, even if they might be a first-time visitor, and you're getting to know people, and you're making them feel, like you said, at home and welcome, and there you go.
There's hospitality, for sure
I-- and most recently, I was a f-food and beverage director at a hotel that
Component, and
yeah
I l- what I loved about, that experience was about hospitality at an entirely different caliber. In restaurants, the, the g- the objective of most restaurants is to get repeat business, right?
How can I convert this first-time guest into a regular guest? How can I make sure that they come back tomorrow, and then the next day, and then next week and so on? And when you have a members club component where people need to pay to access the space is ultimately what,
yes
h- what is, what does the value proposition look like, and so it's every interaction with a non-member is an opportunity for you to convert them into a member, right? So you need to showcase tremendous value in the experience. And then every interaction thereafter, once they are converted into a member, you have to showcase even higher value, I think,
Definitely.
r- to retain them.
You
Yeah
is, this was worth it." This, "And here's why you
An elevated experience.
And
getting it
much more... Y- the, h- the hospitality around that i-is so much more evolved, right? Because there is that recognition, roger has been a member here for three years, and, here's how he likes his iced tea, and he's very specific about the three ice cubes, and he hates lemons with it.
Whatever. These things that you just pick up about people.
thousand details and everyone matters, and everyone has their own details, and
That's an elevated experience. When you get to know people on that level where they feel like you they're genuine. It's genuine caring, it's genuine hospitality, but it's getting to know people because I really enjoy seeing you every time you come in, awesome. That's beautiful. That's awesome. Let me ask you something. Let's go back to any time in your career, what are your thoughts on suggestive selling and how that combines with great service, and if the two, really make a better impact on a guest experience? And it comes from product knowledge, of course.
Think about that?
Yeah, knowledge is power, right? And I think what
Yeah
sells in, in, in a dining, in a traditional dining experience is ability to convince somebody else that they should do something, right? And too often I find upselling or suggestis- suggestive selling to come
Yes.
Car salesman-y, and that immediately turns me off, and I think it probably turns most people off. It's aggressive. It's all about the sale. It's not about the product. It's n- and so I think if you can fold in that, that, know and make it very subtle, right? Let's say it's a bottle of wine. Know enough where you can speak to qualities of the wine. But I find that it's, you're almost painting a picture and you're telling a story a little bit. You kinda say, "Okay, based on what you've ordered today, I really think that you're gonna love this Cab Sauv from Napa. It's velvety.
It's medium to full body, so it's not gonna overpower that salmon. I think it's actually gonna pair beautifully with it. And you said that you love..." Maybe you remember a detail, "you love Napa reds anyway, so this is one of my favorites. It's a hidden gem. Not many people order it, but I think you're gonna love it.
And I'll tell you what, if you don't, I'm gonna take care of it." Maybe you work at a place that gives you autonomy to say something like that. But yeah, I think it's you make them believe that they want it, right? It's the natural next, "Yeah, of course I need that bottle of wine.
It sounds amazing. Like, why wouldn't I get that?" Versus just talking at somebody and inf- and forcing a moment. That's the art of just, again, being able to read people, read the table understand the s- the psychology of the person, right? It... There's a, there's so much that
There is.
All of this, and I think
an art is what it is
It's an art, and I think it's so funny that people I think hospitality professionals get a bad rep, and I think it's a deeply misunderstood business and, I think it's, to a lot of people, just "Oh, it's, you work in hospitality," and there's this weird negative connotation with it. But what people don't understand is all of the pieces of a puzzle that need to come together and the understanding of human psychology and just people and the way they behave and what makes them happy, what makes somebody say yes to a bottle of wine.
Like, all of these things are happening at 100 miles an hour, right? And so yeah, I think for all of those reasons, I think, yeah, people just like, when they t- speak in that way, it makes me just chuckle a little bit because I'm like, you truly don't understand what goes on to make these moments happen on a daily basis,
let's talk about hiring or recruiting, whichever works in your organization. Is there a way that you get to know people instantly in an interview through the questions you ask, and what makes you say, "This person definitely belongs here," versus someone that doesn't? What really stands out to you?
Yeah, totally. I once had a mentor that, and I'll never forget this, and they were just "Take..." I have a tendency to sometimes just speak to fill the void.
Okay. Yeah
and, and he was observing me conduct- conducting an interview once, and he was just like, "Just stop talking." He was like, "Ask the question. Ask a thoughtful question, thoughtful enough to make them give you a thoughtful answer, and then shut up." And I remember hearing that being like, "Huh?" But... And it took me a m- it, actually a few months to really understand what he was saying to me. but what he was saying is let them make you feel something. He's, he was saying, take this... You're the guest in this experience. They are serving you in whatever capacity. Regardless of the role that they're applying for,
Yes.
Are, they are serving you as the guest. Know, assume the role of the guest."
And I was just like, "Okay." So I'd ask a question, "Hey, tell me about yourself and what brought you in today?" Something simple as that, and then I would shut up and just let them talk, and if it was close-ended, if they, if it was a quick nine-second response and I didn't feel anything, that was probably a telltale sign I'd ask them a couple more questions.
But if it was, "Oh, my gosh I just love this restaurant. I've been coming here since I was a kid," and blah, and then it becomes a story, and I'm hanging on to every word, and then they stop talking, and it's like I don't want them to stop, and it's... Then I'm like, "Oh, there's something here." And the other piece of advice that I got with that same mentor was assume the role of a casting director. So somebody might be applying for the role of server, but as you're chatting with them, you're interacting with them, you're like, "Oh, this person would be a fabulous maitre d'" So tell them that, "hey, I know that you're applying to be a server, and I think you would excel in that role, but the role that I think is meant for you where you would really just shine the maitre d' role, and here's what that looks like, and what are your thoughts on that?"
Nice
A- and yeah, that just completely shifted the way I hire and the way I think about hiring.
It's like you, you just-- if you just remain open to opportunity and the op- 'cause if you put yourself in a box like, "Oh, we need servers," we're short a server, and I need to hire for that role and whatnot," then you're cons- like the, the ability to hire somebody for that spec- you're just...
It's too narrow, right? Y-
Oh, yeah.
you
Need, we just need to hire somebody. We just need to bring somebody in." Or we're just-- we need bodies, right? Maybe that's
That happens too often.
Yeah, and then you just, meet people, and you have conversations with them and, know I think people put too much emphasis on a resume.
Yeah
I'll look at a resume. I'll skim a resume. But I want you as the candidate to tell me, walk me through your resume, tell me the story of you, 'cause I don't wanna read it. I wanna hear it from you 'cause I wanna experience it like a guest would experience it, and if you can't walk me through your story, this is probably not the job for you.
That's an amazing you're approaching things as an opportunist, and you're recognizing talent in someone perhaps. And even if they think they wanna be a server, you may see something different, better, greater in that person. And even if they have to move into that, they're gonna ultimately thrive.
So it's more of a long-term plan than a short-term plan, I'm hearing. And I think that's tremendous, 'cause not only is it in the best interest of the person, it's also in the best interest of the restaurant. So getting to know someone in that interview process, you can really see beyond the job that they might be applying for and say, "Okay, this person might start here, but in a couple of weeks or even a month, they could go there."
And therein lies empowerment, too. When you empower other leaders in your organization, recognize that talent. And whether it's a promotion or whether it's just a task or a new objective, and if you accomplish this, there'll be an incentive for you. And it gives a chance, it gives a person a chance to prove themself, and then ultimately there might be a promotion for them.
But it keeps their job interesting along the way, if, okay, this is your position, but now can you do this? And it might take you a week or two. You might give them some direction, or you might say, "Hey, astonish me. Research this. Figure it out. Execute it. And if you do great, I'm gonna give you an incentive for doing so."
So I heard all of that in conversation. That's really killer. That's awesome. Will, yeah, it's been so awesome. We talked about hospitality, the embodiment of leadership, everything about people, because people are the foundation of our business, and you definitely have a great approach. So appreciate you, having you on the show.
Thank you, Will.
Yeah. Thanks so much for having me. This has been great
That was the Restaurant Rockstars podcast. Thank you so much to our audience tuning in. Thanks to our sponsors this week. Can't wait to see you in the next episode. Stay well, stay tuned, and I will see you then.
